(British) Cheviot Sheep Society

[Sue]

Check out the British registry here: www.cheviotsheep.org

Note that their ideal ram looks just like our sheep except he has horns! I know rams of the Brecknock Hill Cheviot breed of Wales can be horned. So why do Americans get the knickers in a twist about *scurs*?

And take a look at the (British) North Country Cheviot: http://www.nc-cheviot.co.uk/public/breeddesc.php

Their standard is pretty much what I'm aiming for except I prefer a smaller, more Roman-nosed head.

Sue

[Sue]

Okay, and here is the Wicklow Cheviot (Irish Cheviots) homepage. I don't care for these heads, though...
http://www.wicklowsheep.ie/index.htm

And the Brecknock Hill Cheviots of Wales:
http://brecknockhillcheviotsheep.co.uk/farmers/index.html

Oh, this is the American registry for North Country Cheviots. I like their standard quite a lot except our sheep's heads are different, they're much smaller, and of course the North Country Cheviot color disqualifications don't apply.
http://northcountrycheviot.com/

And here we have the American registry for Cheviot sheep. They have really ventured far from the fold (pun intended).
www.cheviots.org

Specs for the North Country Cheviot in the United States.
http://www.sheepusa.org/index.phtml?page=site/text&nav_id=5b5f2...

Just my opinion but after reading at all four British Cheviot sites, I still think that part from size and head shape (and even then, it's close), the North Country Cheviot standard comes closest to the line of sheep that I (and Lori and Rebecca) are breeding. The ram pictured at this page is a lot more massive than ours, though (they don't look as massive in other pictures of North Country Cheviots)...
http://www.nc-cheviot.co.uk/public/breeddesc.php

But look at the Hill and Border types of North Country Cheviot pictured on this page. Cool, huh (the Border type looks a lot like Wooby if he was show shorn in the British manner)
http://www.nc-cheviot.co.uk/public/history.php

So. What do you think?

Sue

[Rebecca]

I definitely like the blocky, solid, long look. The NC, Border type looks very much like our line. Our sheep have much more refined heads than a lot of the NC sheep. I like a slightly longer neck and a much more refined head than the ram on the NC Cheviot Sheep Society breed description page. The one thing I'd most like to improve in this line is the wool. And judging by Baagonia's wool, Oran has really done the trick there.

[Sue]

I don't know what Aiden's fleece is like but Woolson has unusually coarse wool. A few of my others do too (Baart immediately pops to mind). Then they range to Shebaa, who has really lovely, soft wool. Abram had unusually nice wool too.

I thought Rumbler's fleece would be coarse because it was very different than the norm when he was born but as an adult, he's more toward the middle of the pack. It will be interesting to see what kind of adult fleece Baama has!

Sue


Rebecca said:

I definitely like the blocky, solid, long look. The NC, Border type looks very much like our line. Our sheep have much more refined heads than a lot of the NC sheep. I like a slightly longer neck and a much more refined head than the ram on the NC Cheviot Sheep Society breed description page. The one thing I'd most like to improve in this line is the wool. And judging by Baagonia's wool, Oran has really done the trick there.

[Toni Kellers]

The horns are one reason we gave up on the name Brecknock Hill Cheviots - they are horned and we are not.
Toni

[Toni Kellers]

We have a very good standard on the mini cheviot sheep site -
I'm glad to hear that Oran has been a good influence on fleece quality - I have bred for that for years now, andmy fleeces have won enough awards here in the East to make them competitive in that area. I just got word today that one of my Shetland/Cheviot crosses (a white wether) is being considered by a spinning group for the sheep-to-shawl competition at the Maryland Sheep and Wool Festival, and you don't get any more big-time that that! WooHoo!
Toni

[Sue]

It IS a good standard! It's just not, in places, the type of sheep I'm breeding for. I want a long, low body with lots of depth and width, and I really want big, soft eyes, arched faces, and smallish ears that aren't set abslutely upright. Coming to sheep from Morgan and Arabian horses, I really want to see breed character in the head.

I don't think everyone should necessarily breed toward a set standard anyway, especially in a breed that is very rarely shown. We need to look at our own sheep and get a great big grin on our faces every day because we're breeding precisely the sort of sheep we most admire! :o)

I was looking mainly at British standards since Cheviots were developed in Britain, that's all...

Sue

Toni Kellers said:

We have a very good standard on the mini cheviot sheep site -
I'm glad to hear that Oran has been a good influence on fleece quality - I have bred for that for years now, andmy fleeces have won enough awards here in the East to make them competitive in that area. I just got word today that one of my Shetland/Cheviot crosses (a white wether) is being considered by a spinning group for the sheep-to-shawl competition at the Maryland Sheep and Wool Festival, and you don't get any more big-time that that! WooHoo!
Toni

[Toni Kellers]

I just had the time to check things out and went through the British sites. The "Border" type in the last site that sue referred to is great for conformation - but remember, he probably weighs 300 lbs!!! I really like Oran (not just 'cause I bred him) but because he has the shape I look for and also the head. I like ears that are not quite erect, but almost, and a good roman nose and a head shap that is more blocky than long. That is what I breed toward, and what has won. I have noticed that the black fleeces (Brian and Darra) are not as long or fine as any of my white but I am hoping to breed black to white and get a good black fleece - my white does have a black gene.
Toni

[Rebecca]

Where the old style sheep really that heavy? I have seen pictures of sheep in America (not just Cheviots, but also Southdowns) from the early 1900's that were the size of our sheep.

[Sue]

As recently as 50-75 years ago, Border Cheviots were the size of our sheep. I have this from Dick (I've forgotten his last name but will go look it up again later--I dedicated Hobby Farms Sheep to him and his wife) who was in his 80's and secretary of the American Scottish Blackface registry, who took one look at my pictures and said, "These aren't miniatures! These are Border Cheviots!" He showed me pictures from his vast antique sheep reference library and the old ones were small. Same with Babydoll Southdowns. According to Robert Mock, they were the Southdowns of the same era we're speaking of.

Modern Border Cheviots are much bigger but they've kept the same roportions as the old ones, whereas American Cheviots are long-legged wonders.

I've noticed dark-colored individuals' fleeces does, as a rule, tend to be coarser than white fleece and also, dark ones rarely show a rough. Baagonia's dam has both a rough and very soft fleece. It's funny, since until Oran made Maxx for me, all my sheep were the same bloodlines.

It really pains me to have Baarak and Gwydion wethered because they have lovely fleece but both are HUMONGOUS. Strange since Maxx, Hope, and (I think) Baagonia stayed fairly small (Hope is actually very small). I have only Baatiste bred this year (Lori's Ursula is bred to Wooby), so it will be fun seeing what she produces by the same breeding.

Sue

[Sue]

RUFF! Not "rough". Sheeeesh!

Sue

Sue said:

As recently as 50-75 years ago, Border Cheviots were the size of our sheep. I have this from Dick (I've forgotten his last name but will go look it up again later--I dedicated Hobby Farms Sheep to him and his wife) who was in his 80's and secretary of the American Scottish Blackface registry, who took one look at my pictures and said, "These aren't miniatures! These are Border Cheviots!" He showed me pictures from his vast antique sheep reference library and the old ones were small. Same with Babydoll Southdowns. According to Robert Mock, they were the Southdowns of the same era we're speaking of.

Modern Border Cheviots are much bigger but they've kept the same roportions as the old ones, whereas American Cheviots are long-legged wonders.

I've noticed dark-colored individuals' fleeces does, as a rule, tend to be coarser than white fleece and also, dark ones rarely show a rough. Baagonia's dam has both a rough and very soft fleece. It's funny, since until Oran made Maxx for me, all my sheep were the same bloodlines.

It really pains me to have Baarak and Gwydion wethered because they have lovely fleece but both are HUMONGOUS. Strange since Maxx, Hope, and (I think) Baagonia stayed fairly small (Hope is actually very small). I have only Baatiste bred this year (Lori's Ursula is bred to Wooby), so it will be fun seeing what she produces by the same breeding.

Sue

[Rebecca]

Baagonia is quite small. She looks like she is about 75% the size of Aiden, but it's all fluff. I can easily pick her up and carry her around. She is a bit smaller than my Babydolls were as yearlings. I assumed she would continue to grow, as my Babydolls did.

[Sue]

Most of mine seem to grow until they're about 18 months old--but I don't know if that's the norm or not? They get a lot of their adult size by 9-10 months of age.

Sue

Rebecca said:

Baagonia is quite small. She looks like she is about 75% the size of Aiden, but it's all fluff. I can easily pick her up and carry her around. She is a bit smaller than my Babydolls were as yearlings. I assumed she would continue to grow, as my Babydolls did.